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Post by petertherock on Aug 6, 2021 21:06:43 GMT -5
Wrong…there is a good chance of dying from the covid vaccine. Unless you believe the crap the government is feeding you. evidence please - not a broken Facebook link what the video in the link shows, is a doctor talking about the limited tests they did do on this “vaccine.” They tested it on humanized mice and on monkeys, 100% of the mice and monkeys died after a couple months which in human equivalent is about 2 years. We already know the vaccines don’t work because people are getting covid even with the vaccines. And enough with this crap about “the vaccine never stopped you from getting covid….imagine if all the other vaccines worked that way? Ah, get the polio vaccine but you can still get polio…get the mumps vaccine but you can still get the mumps…absolutely stupid…and now…you still gotta wear a mask whether you’re vaxxed or not. Now they are telling parents to wear a mask around their kids in their own home! This is insanity…if you want to comply with this bullshit stuff, go ahead, but I’m done with it. I haven’t worn a mask at all during this entire thing other than places like doctors offices where you have to wear it…and I haven’t even so much has gotten a cold…and that is going to NFL games and NHL playoff games.
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Post by petertherock on Aug 6, 2021 21:08:21 GMT -5
Oh yeah…and let me add…the National Anthem singer for the Tampa Bay Lightning hockey team is fighting for her life in the ICU with covid and she was fully vaxxed.
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Post by redvers76 on Aug 7, 2021 1:26:41 GMT -5
Oh yeah…and let me add…the National Anthem singer for the Tampa Bay Lightning hockey team is fighting for her life in the ICU with covid and she was fully vaxxed. No she isn’t. She left ICU already. She has underlying health conditions which is why she has been affected. If you get Covid and are unvaccinated your are more likely to experience significant health issues. And it isn’t just about death it is also about long term problems - having your lungs ravaged and needing to have medical support for the rest of your life. And while kids are unlikely to die from Covid, they’re not immune to these life altering effects. You are *not* more likely to die from the vaccine than from Covid - the Facebook posts that say that completely misrepresent the statistics and rely on the fact that the people reading them aren’t mathematicians or going to go to the source materials to check. And the video didn’t work. We have quacks in the U.K. as well tho - some people will sacrifice their careers for clicks… Masks : Polio : www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/nov/28/polio-outbreaks-in-four-african-countries-caused-by-mutation-of-strain-in-vaccine
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Post by redvers76 on Aug 7, 2021 1:32:49 GMT -5
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Post by anaix3l on Aug 7, 2021 6:10:41 GMT -5
Sounds interesting. Let's start from assuming it may be true and look up sources, okay?
Do we find anything about this online? Yes, we do find this vitriolic anti-vaccine article, which says this about the covid vaccine:The link on the CAPS LOCK text leads to this .pdf (which is not a scientific paper), in which the only mention of animals dying in vaccine trials is this:Oh, wait, so this is not about any of the covid vaccines, it's about a different kind of vaccine from years ago!
Still, let's see that linked paper. Oh, this is an actual peer-reviewed, reliable source! From 2012, almost a decade ago! What does it say about the death of the mice? Well, this:By the way, this is normal procedure. All animals in such trials are supposed to be euthanized at the end in order to carry out post-mortem examinations.
This means the claim that all animals died in the trials for a vaccine developed in 2020 is based on the report of the routine procedure of euthanizing lab mice after a study for a different type of vaccine from about a decade earlier. To sum up: the claim is bullshit.
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Post by anaix3l on Aug 7, 2021 6:58:57 GMT -5
Please do check out the immunology course I linked on the previous page. Vaccines in general, not just the covid one, don't prevent infection. They just give your body the upper hand in fighting it, which reduces the chances of symptomatic illness and the chances of passing it further. And when the chances of passing it further drop dramatically, it can be eradicated.
Vaccines like the Pfizer one being 90% efficient in preventing severe illness means that 10% of those vaccinated will still develop severe illness. Now assuming all vaccines are as efficient (though there are serious doubts about the Chinese one), that means that, in theory, out of the 2 billion people already vaccinated, 200 millions may still develop severe illness. Yes, that's quite a lot, but it's still way less than without the vaccine. As I've often said about other things in life, something's more than nothing.
In practice, things look better. But still, to everyone who has been vaccinated: you're not invincible, especially if you have pre-existing conditions or your age exceeds life expectancy (everyone who died from covid in spite of being vaccinated in Romania had pre-existing conditions and their average age was a year higher than life expectancy here). At the end of the day, it's more about common sense than anything. No need to go completely kookoo and pass out on the beach from dehydration just so you don't remove your mask to drink water, but at the same time maybe avoid close unmasked face to face conversations with other people if either you or them are in the habit of spitting saliva when speaking. I know, gross...
In Netherlands, where some 90% of the eligible adults have been vaccinated, the number of cases spiked from 500 at the start of July to over 10000 in mid July. The number of deaths/ day in mid-July? 3. The number of deaths/ day at the end of July? 3. We're taking into account that 2 week lag between infection and death here. So the number of cases increases 200 times, the number of hospitalizations increased 3.5 times, the number of deaths did not increase at all.
In Austria, with lower, but still pretty good vaccination rate, the number of cases has increased from under 100/ day to 600/ day. The number of deaths has gone from 0 on most days to 1 on most days. The number of hospitalizations remains low. This is why I'm hoping to see a concert there in 10 days from now. Beyond restricting who can get in at crowded indoor events and higher fines for those breaking the rules, they're reluctant to take any other measures as long as the sharp increase in the number of cases doesn't cause a significant increase in deaths.
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Post by redvers76 on Aug 7, 2021 17:08:15 GMT -5
This is really pissing me off - I can only upvote Ana once per post!!
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Post by petertherock on Aug 7, 2021 21:42:40 GMT -5
Oh yeah…and let me add…the National Anthem singer for the Tampa Bay Lightning hockey team is fighting for her life in the ICU with covid and she was fully vaxxed. No she isn’t. She left ICU already. She has underlying health conditions which is why she has been affected. If you get Covid and are unvaccinated your are more likely to experience significant health issues. And it isn’t just about death it is also about long term problems - having your lungs ravaged and needing to have medical support for the rest of your life. And while kids are unlikely to die from Covid, they’re not immune to these life altering effects. You are *not* more likely to die from the vaccine than from Covid - the Facebook posts that say that completely misrepresent the statistics and rely on the fact that the people reading them aren’t mathematicians or going to go to the source materials to check. And the video didn’t work. We have quacks in the U.K. as well tho - some people will sacrifice their careers for clicks… Masks : Polio : www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/nov/28/polio-outbreaks-in-four-african-countries-caused-by-mutation-of-strain-in-vaccineGetting medical information from Bette Midler? 🖕 🖕 🖕
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Post by redvers76 on Aug 8, 2021 1:37:17 GMT -5
No she isn’t. She left ICU already. She has underlying health conditions which is why she has been affected. If you get Covid and are unvaccinated your are more likely to experience significant health issues. And it isn’t just about death it is also about long term problems - having your lungs ravaged and needing to have medical support for the rest of your life. And while kids are unlikely to die from Covid, they’re not immune to these life altering effects. You are *not* more likely to die from the vaccine than from Covid - the Facebook posts that say that completely misrepresent the statistics and rely on the fact that the people reading them aren’t mathematicians or going to go to the source materials to check. And the video didn’t work. We have quacks in the U.K. as well tho - some people will sacrifice their careers for clicks… Masks : Polio : www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/nov/28/polio-outbreaks-in-four-african-countries-caused-by-mutation-of-strain-in-vaccineGetting medical information from Bette Midler? 🖕 🖕 🖕 Is that the best response you have got? It’s quite clearly a meme, not medical advice, but it sounds like you cannot tell the difference given the stuff you spout…
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Post by anaix3l on Aug 8, 2021 4:12:35 GMT -5
One more thing I should add: I think skepticism is healthy and very much necessary. But skepticism isn't denialism. Skepticism requires an open mind and the willingness to change one's opinion if presented with solid evidence to the contrary. Denialism, on the other hand, is based on a fixed belief that has nothing to do with the matter being discussed and is rooted in what one feels that shapes/ defines his or her own identity. And I'm seeing this from both sides, to be fair. I'm seeing arguments based on anecdotes. Anecdotes are not scientific evidence. One person's story, while maybe true and having an emotional appeal, is not enough to draw conclusions from and may well be an outlier to the scientific data. Sadly, emotional stories are likely to go viral and distort people's perception of reality. I'm seeing way too many shocking headlines. Okay, we all know this has been happening for decades now, but it got really bad over the past few years. Even publications you'd expect better from do it. So I think it's important to read more than the headlines, as they're often there as a bait and don't necessarily paint an honest picture. I think it's also important to try to trace where the info in the articles comes from, as (intentional or not) it may well be a misrepresentation of reality. I'm seeing way too many unintelligent jokes and memes. Yeah, call me a grumpy old lady already. I'm fine with playfulness and making fun of a shitty situation. But when I see timeliness filled with nothing but memes mocking what people see as "the other side", that's a different story. Especially when those accounts have titles like CEO in the bio, I can't help but think "this person has a serious case of stupid". --- Back to Clapton's/ other musicians' choice of not playing where vaccines are mandatory. When I first saw the headlines, I shrugged... who cares? Yeah, he sounds like a rich douche to me (though given I'm the same person who gave up on seeing Aerosmith in 2014 to speak at a big conference that promised 1000€ but never paid me, given a couple of years back I put in a lot of work into a cool demo that I never got paid for and given I found out a big magazine paid me less than half of what they normally pay for articles as extensive as mine... I may not be the best judge of human character) and not a very smart one for that matter. But as far as I'm concerned, he's free to do as he pleases. And people are free not to go to his shows if they're not comfortable with his choice. Yeah, I admit there's the issue with him being a celebrity, someone people will blindly believe and all that, but what can you do? Madball have announced the same, saying they "cannot in good conscience play shows that require personal/private medical information" - fair point, considering this announcement came at around the same time that LiveNation announced proof of vaccination would be mandatory at their shows. You could argue Madball are hypocrites since they've sold tickets to their shows through LiveNation/ Ticketmaster. But the issue remains. Given the track record that LiveNation/ Ticketmaster have, would you trust them with your medical information? I don't and I'm saying this as someone who got vaccinated in the final, "general population" stage. At this point, I'm just glad I don't have any shows they're involved in happening anytime soon. After that, we'll see how things actually work from a technical standpoint. Honestly, I don't know what would be best. As frustrated as I get with seeing a lot of stupidity around this issue, I'm still not a fan of the idea of keeping people on a leash as I've seen plenty of examples of it backfiring big time. Following the situation in the Netherlands and Austria because they are the two countries I considered traveling to at the start of June, I can say this: for every rule, there are many, many ways to break/ go around it anyway. Both countries required proof of vaccination or a negative test for entry at both indoor and outdoor events where you'd have lots of people crammed in a small space. It turned out fakes and bribes became the norm in the Netherlands. People tested positive and then bribed security people (who, you know, really needed the money after all these months). Or just faked negative test and vaccination certificates. Or used those of other people. This also happened to a certain extent in Austria, but since fines were much higher and issued on the spot, a lot of people just went south of the border where rules were more relaxed (and then brought the virus with them on return). In a way, I'm doing the same by going to Austria to see a real concert - it can happen there, but not yet here. No conclusion other than my brain hurts from turning this around like a really messed up Rubik's cube that I can't solve. I plan to try my best to be as careful as possible on this upcoming trip because I'd never forgive myself if I caught and passed this thing to someone vulnerable. But beyond that...
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