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Post by AeroCooper on Jun 9, 2014 17:20:14 GMT -5
Inspired by the shoutbox chatter, what is some good advice to give to kids and teens getting ready to head out into the world?
I have one step son who is doing well in school, but is generally lazy when it comes to chores and finding a part time job. I don't know why, because I have always set a good example and taught them to work for what they wanted.
He recently put in one (1) application after 6 months procrastinating and thought for sure he was going to get the job. Why? Because he put in one (1) application, that's why. Of course, he didn't get it, and hasn't put in another yet because apparently the experience was so shocking that he can't stand to go through that again.
I know, I probably sound cranky, but it is kind of annoying to see the level of laziness when I know he has the potential and the intelligence to get a good paying job if he would just apply himself to the process.
Then there is the step daughter who was doing great saving money for her first car, which will be needed in just a few months. She had over $500 saved up already when she decided that her perfectly good cell phone was crap because it wasn't an iPhone, for fuck's sake. She spent the whole wad on that and hasn't bothered to save a single penny since then.
So yeah, I have no good advice, obviously, but if you do feel free to pitch in. Not only on these topics, but any that you think kids need to hear.
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Post by 4bits4licks76 on Jun 9, 2014 20:50:00 GMT -5
I think by the time that the kids are in their mid to late teens they have either learned and developed good character and a commendable work ethic from mom and dad or they haven't. Kids need to have chores at an early age and learn the values of completing tasks and the consequences of not. I have employed numerous teens over the years and have witnessed the vast spectrum from kids who were taught well and were vastly superior to many of their peers, to the kids who couldn't look anyone in the eye when they spoke. I only kept the best around and weeded out the dopes. I felt like telling them that their parents failed them in so many ways.
I have a 9 year old daughter and she knows what we expect from how to treat people, how not to treat people and what we expect with regards to school work and chores. We are not totalitarian dictators, but I believe in setting standards and expectations at a young age. If parents let young kids lounge around the couch watching tv or playing video games all day, they are encouraging and promoting a lazy life style. Parents can't just tell their kids what they expect of them, they must train them by taking action. The parents must get involved with their kids school work, athletic endeavors and chores and projects around the house as well as good civics and serving the community. Kids should also be rewarded when they accomplish a goal.
It seems to me that kids who are involved in sports, have a good understanding of team work and respect leadership more so than kids who have not had those experiences. Kids who play sports understand failure, loss, success & winning and sacrifice which are all a part of life as adults. How often do we hear of kids who are shocked when they get rejected for something? Mommy and daddy have been coddling them all their lives, telling them how special they are and it's the mean teacher that has it in for them, that's the reason for the D-.
Also, studies show that kids who take part in sports often avoid many teenage pitfalls like drugs and pregnancy.
In short, teach and train them from a young age. Set reasonable expectations and goals and reward them often when they succeed but let them fail as well. Encourage sports and team leadership as well as a part time job when they are old enough. A well rounded home life is key for child development and must be practiced on a routine basis to build a character that is consistent with good values and ethics.
I guess this rant is more directed at parents than kids. But I will think of some advice for the kids on the next post. Coop, none of this was directed or a response to your thread/post.
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Post by AeroCooper on Jun 9, 2014 20:56:04 GMT -5
My nephew was reading books at age 3 to a level that My next door neighbor who invented the laser Gyroscope at Honeywell 30 odd years ago was impressed by him so I guess I should be. My stepson was in advanced everything up to 10th grade. Then they both found video games for 10 hours a day and both have flunked out of school. First, notice these are not my kids so what do I really know. But it seems to me overall the "new" babysitter for all kids is distro ying their future. Everything I hear you saying sounds like being spoiled and your need to be more of a dick. Just like my dad. And I appreciate him for it.No, I've been a dick plenty to them. As I said, I've always set a good example and taught them to work for what they want. I rarely give out money, and when I do I'm pissy about it, lol. If they want something special, they work to earn the money. I really don't understand where the entitlement comes from.
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Post by AeroCooper on Jun 9, 2014 21:02:31 GMT -5
Understood. For the record though the kids are very active in sports and have also always had chores. I used to give them an allowance until they rejected it as being too little. So I stopped the allowance but they kept the chores. They really are good kids, and usually very respectful. Its only in the job department that the step son is lacking. Very odd, since he has plenty of confidence, very outgoing, and is good at sports and school.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 21:04:16 GMT -5
I am sorry if you think I faulted you. 4bits advice is certainly better than mine although I have turned around my employees many times. But I had control during their time with me, where I don't with kids that I am not a parent. I was a horses ass sometimes when I was younger but I always knew I had great parents and never said any different to anyone no matter how much turmoil I might have caused sometimes. My simpleton advice is to removed computer games. But then they will not be able to create some worthless company for someone to come along and give them $100 million for it. Wait, thats a different rant. I saw my wife and my brother give up way too soon on the enforcement of rules. I think kids will always go through a jerk stage and you just need to ride it out.
ALL 3 nephews and the stepson gave up sports for GameBoy. If nothing else was going right at the moment I was always on the swim team year round from age 8 to 17 and I feel that really helped. Good advice there 4bits.
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Post by AeroCooper on Jun 9, 2014 21:06:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm thinking its just a stage. I was WAY worse at his age, so I'm very grateful for that!
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Post by jj on Jun 9, 2014 22:43:22 GMT -5
Lots of good advice hear already, so I really won't offer up anything new. Kids are all different. If parents set a strong example, have reasonably high (not too high) expectations, hold them accountable, let them fail without rescue, most will come around to adopt their parents values and work ethic. Takes longer for some.
Coop, you are not alone. I have a post grad degree, am a Clinical Director of an mental health/social service non profit organization with 300 employees, teach at the local junior college, counseled hundreds of parents and kids, and still struggle as a parent. Our youngest went off to college last year and dropped out. He never got connected in any activities (he was always in activities at home), lived too far off campus, and basically "played" on his computer all day (his graduation/going away to college gift). The hardest thing we did as parents was to allow him to fail on his own terms. He is now home again and enrolled at the in the junior college. He is changing his habits slowly, but surely on his own. Of course, he doesn't have the same privileges he did away from home (all the freedom), but that is the consequence of living at home. He has to contribute.
Stick with it, keep your wits about you, take out your frustrations elsewhere, keep setting a good example, hold them accountable and likely they will come around.
Oh yeah, and don't forget to love on them.
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Post by Zen on Jun 9, 2014 23:09:31 GMT -5
Something I have noticed here in Oz is that kids that have 2 working parents or even from a single parent family where that parent works, seem to be the kids that start early like asking the neighbours about chores for money like lawn mowing and car washing. You have to be by law 14 and 9 months in age here before you can get a "real" job like at McDonalds etc.
Hubby and I both worked so the kids had chores. We never paid pocket money or money for doing the chores and our friends used to call us cheapskates and whatever. The kids did get pretty much whatever they wanted within reason but they did work for it, in my opinion they worked harder than our friends kids who did get pocket money. They both got jobs at 14 and 9 months, my son at a computer superstore as a junior sales person/trainee technician and my daughter at a fruit and veg wholesaler that also had a deli that cooked meals. We didn't tell either of them to do that, they come home and asked and we said yes as long as your grades don't slip. I can't recall either of them ever trying to get out of one of their rostered shifts to party with their friends ever. A few times when a concert or party was coming up they would tell the boss they wanted that shift off weeks ahead and would say sorry I have to work to their friends if something was spur of the moment.
We did buy them a car each, to the value of $3000 and they had to pay back half to us out of what they earned at their part time jobs. You used to be able to get your learners permit here at 16 and 6 months and you had to have it 6 months before you got your actual licence where you could drive alone, all the laws have changed now.
Both of them played sport, the daughter more so than the son, he was a computer geek but he did play soccer and cricket and was into bmx for a few years. As he got older I do recall my husband picking him up (sometimes chair and all) from in front of the computer and throwing him in the pool so he would see some daylight after a computer marathon. He got wise pretty quick, if he turned the sound down or used a headset it took longer for Dad to realise how long he had been in front of the computer. The were both into music aswell and both play several instruments.
I think I was pretty lucky with both of mine, some of our friends and friends kids I would use the term loser to describe them. I know a 52 year old that still lives at home, he was 30 when he got his first job and has had it ever since but he is so lazy. He is one I can't figure out, he is quite intelligent, his parents didn't baby him and his 2 younger brothers got jobs, left home, got married, had kids etc, so that kind of blew my theory on it was how he was raised!
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Post by Zen on Jun 9, 2014 23:54:43 GMT -5
None of my rambling above was advice. I don't really have any for teens, not that they would probably listen anyway, I think you have to have good communication with your kids from when they start talking. We always tried to answer anything ours asked openly and honestly and that wasn't always easy when it come to certain subjects like drugs and sex. Now they are adults we are friends maybe more than parents/children, we actually hang out together, go to concerts, go out to dinner or just visit each other for a bbq or dinner, through choice rather than obligation.
Kids aren't stupid especially teenagers, they know when you are trying to bullshit them.
For advice, give them choices rather than ultimatums and even if they choose wrong they will learn from it. If you do have a good communication with them, then maybe tell them about something similar that you had to choose with when you were around the same age and how it worked out for you.
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Post by anaix3l on Jun 10, 2014 8:24:40 GMT -5
Best advice? You die and there's no second chance. There's no recipe for anything in this life. Everything is relative. Something that means the world to you isn't probably worth a fuckin' dime to anyone else. Someone else's definition of success/ happiness may not apply to you. You should probably listen to other people's opinion, but don't follow their advice if you feel that you don't want to be in the place where it's going to lead you. Money won't probably really matter until health suffers. And then you're in deep shit. Also, if you feel strongly drawn towards something, whatever that something may be, do not waste any chance to go deeper into it and do not count on adults to help. They may not know a thing about it. Do not count on your passion and dedication leading to a happy end either. They're often not enough to make you world class. Even if they do in other people's eyes, you might still have a different opinion on that. That may be impostor syndrome. Or not. But if you think you're damn good at something... bad news! There's a big chance you really aren't. Yeah, there's a lot of my internal madness in the paragraphs above. Also, I feel the need to disagree with some of the things above. But I'll leave that for the next break I take.
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Post by 4bits4licks76 on Jun 10, 2014 9:25:04 GMT -5
Best advice? You die and there's no second chance. There's no recipe for anything in this life. Everything is relative. Something that means the world to you isn't probably worth a fuckin' dime to anyone else. Someone else's definition of success/ happiness may not apply to you. You should probably listen to other people's opinion, but don't follow their advice if you feel that you don't want to be in the place where it's going to lead you. Money won't probably really matter until health suffers. And then you're in deep shit. Also, if you feel strongly drawn towards something, whatever that something may be, do not waste any chance to go deeper into it and do not count on adults to help. They may not know a thing about it. Do not count on your passion and dedication leading to a happy end either. They're often not enough to make you world class. Even if they do in other people's eyes, you might still have a different opinion on that. That may be impostor syndrome. Or not. But if you think you're damn good at something... bad news! There's a big chance you really aren't. Yeah, there's a lot of my internal madness in the paragraphs above. Also, I feel the need to disagree with some of the things above. But I'll leave that for the next break I take. I don't agree with any of this . It's also depressing. There are plenty of second chances before you die, so make the most of the talents and gifts you were born with. There are "recipes" or paths to follow to achieve objectives and goals. Life is what YOU make it. Something that means the world to you most likely indeed means the world to others as well. Seek them out, find the ones who do it well. Surround yourself with successful other people and learn from them, learn what mistakes they made and what success they had. Money always matters. Money is the result of hard work and success. It's morally right that those who work hard, take risks are rewarded with opportunities to enjoy things in life that cost money. I'm not saying you need to be wealthy to be happy, but enjoying the fruits of your labor is expected. You will need money long before you have health issues, hopefully. If you want to live an enjoyable life with some nice things you will need money. "Also, if you feel strongly drawn towards something, whatever that something may be, do not waste any chance to go deeper into it and do not count on adults to help. They may not know a thing about it. Do not count on your passion and dedication leading to a happy end either. They're often not enough to make you world class. Even if they do in other people's eyes, you might still have a different opinion on that. That may be impostor syndrome. Or not. But if you think you're damn good at something... bad news! There's a big chance you really aren't."
Wrong. If you feel passionate about something, go for it. Like I said, find those who have succeeded and surround yourself with successful people who share your passions. Always follow your dreams and not money. To many think about the money first and then decide what to do with their lives. The money will be there as you will be successful doing what you love. Imagine waking up in the morning looking forward to the day. Work is viewed as work when it's something you have to do, not when it's something you want to do or enjoy or love doing. Chase the dream, success follows. Chase money, work follows. Don't misunderstand me, life is supposed to be a struggle, even when you enjoy what you do, you must work hard at it to succeed, but you will enjoy your life more working hard for what you believe in than working hard for something that's just a pay check.
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Post by 4bits4licks76 on Jun 10, 2014 9:29:12 GMT -5
"Also, if you feel strongly drawn towards something, whatever that something may be, do not waste any chance to go deeper into it and do not count on adults to help. They may not know a thing about it. Do not count on your passion and dedication leading to a happy end either. They're often not enough to make you world class. Even if they do in other people's eyes, you might still have a different opinion on that. That may be impostor syndrome. Or not. But if you think you're damn good at something... bad news! There's a big chance you really aren't."
Being from New England, I'm sure glad you were not around giving advice to Tom Brady when he was a kid.
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Post by Zen on Jun 10, 2014 11:38:09 GMT -5
Maybe a generation gap?
anaix3l said "You die and there's no second chance. There's no recipe for anything in this life".
4bits4licks76 said "If you feel passionate about something, go for it".
Maybe it's just me? but I thought you were on about the same message, you can do anything if you put your mind to it! You may fail but at least try!
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Post by 4bits4licks76 on Jun 10, 2014 11:53:25 GMT -5
Maybe a generation gap?
anaix3l said "You die and there's no second chance. There's no recipe for anything in this life".
4bits4licks76 said "If you feel passionate about something, go for it".
Maybe it's just me? but I thought you were on about the same message, you can do anything if you put your mind to it! You may fail but at least try!
I think you seriously miss interpreted her post. Did you read the second paragraph? The entire post is depressing and dark. There's no recipe for anything in this life? What? Here is a recipe for failure: Quit school at 16, work at Mcdonald's and have 3 kids by 2 different guys and see how happy you are. Here is a recipe for success. Discover what you are passionate about. Say it's sports related. You go to school for sports medicine. You study hard, graduate, get a job, make contacts, save money, get a better job, make more contacts, go back for more schooling, get a better job with more money, save more money, get married, have a family, buy a house.....live the dream and work hard for it. There, two simple "recipes", but it's up to the cook to see it through. Nothing is guaranteed in life, but if you don't put in the effort and try to achieve something, what's the point? Some people take the bull by the horns and go on a journey and others throw in the towel and watch others riding their journey, and that's how life passes them by and they end up resenting those who have some peace and happiness in their lives.
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Post by anaix3l on Jun 10, 2014 11:59:28 GMT -5
I find life to be depressing in general. Maybe because I somehow ended up wanting too much as a kid and now I'm realizing none of things I wanted and I worked for to the point of almost killing myself are ever going to happen. Life is what YOU make it. I agree with this and it's precisely why I say there are no recipes. Money always matters. If you want to live an enjoyable life with some nice things you will need money. Nice things are not necessarily things that cost money, although there may be a lot of points where the two overlap. I got money in compensation for things I really wanted, but it still didn't feel like I was compensated in any way. I was happier when sleeping in the trash than when spending time in a business lounge in an airport or in a fancy-schmancy hotel where a room can get over 1000 euro per night. Money can buy you a fast ride to the airport when you're in a hurry, they can buy you treatment in a great private hospital if you get injured, but they can't buy you back lost time and they can't buy you abilities you haven't been born with. If you feel passionate about something, go for it. This is exactly what I've said. Maybe I worded it weird, but it's what I meant. I've always loved Maths. But I was a stupid kid, had no idea of a direction. I wish I had someone to guide me, but my parents were clueless (I can't count how many times my mom told me my Maths was useless and both my parents were pushing for some kind of change of direction towards economics... even though they're both engineers, how ironic) as well and so were my teachers. I got prizes at regional Maths contests, went to nationals... and had no clue where to go from there. And nobody to guide me. And I was stupid enough to believe that if I work hard enough then somehow everything was going to be great even though I had no idea what that great might be. Even more, my parents were totally freaking out because I was spending nights doing extra Maths and Physics work. So then there started this cat and mouse game where they'd take my light bulb and I'd replace it with one from my secret stash and then they'd catch me awake again and the whole thing would repeat. Today, I'm writing articles and speaking at conferences around the world about the Maths behind crazy visual stuff you can do with code. I'm actually using a lot of that "useless Maths". Yes, there are a lot of aspects of my life I'm dissatisfied with, but I love speaking about this, I love being on stage, I love when people come to me and challenge me to come up with an algorithm to do one thing or another. And I'm so angry nobody guided me towards this earlier. So angry about the all the wasted time. So angry my parents tried to cap my efforts in school instead of pushing me more than I already pushed myself. I could have been better now. I could have arrived this point sooner. Maybe, just maybe, I could have been able to do some of the things I'm frustrated I'm not good enough to do. The money will be there as you will be successful doing what you love. Haven't really experienced this. A lot of conference organizers are happy not to pay speakers and some are even going to try to get away with not even covering travel and accommodation. Personally, I have been lucky to get enough offers that I would never accept to speak if they don't cover my travel expenses as a minimum and I have been lucky enough to get a few that can cover a few months' worth of bills in addition to that, but still... I'm pretty uneasy. Which is why I sometimes find it appalling I get put in 5 star hotels, get moved around in luxury cabs and get a "speaker goodie bag" so heavy I can barely carry it from the reception to my hotel room... full of stuff I don't need, btw, but don't actually get paid for speaking. Back when I was still interviewing for regular jobs, I got into a few trial periods. I never got the job, never got paid, but they did use the code I had written in their project. I've written articles for sites with ads and didn't get paid. I've had articles in print magazines, never got paid. There have been a lot of people who have asked for advice and then used that advice in projects they got paid for. I got nothing. As I'm typing this, I'm actually giving free advice to someone who is writing a book he's hoping to make money out of. I have absolutely no clue what the fuck I would do with more money except having a financial buffer in case something, I don't know what, goes wrong and I need to cover it. Other than that, I can't really think of anything I would really need and can't afford. It's just that I'm frustrated thinking I should be smarter when it comes to capitalizing on this.
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