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Post by tomass on Dec 14, 2022 11:00:29 GMT -5
Ok ban me for not supporting a low quality fill in for Joey and for being critic of a second Vegas run at the expenses of an European tour. I think my points are valid. We can agree to disagree, no need to insult me personally. They weren't personal insults. They were comments regarding your posts. It is nonstop old and tired...Constant drivel.
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Post by tomass on Dec 14, 2022 11:30:43 GMT -5
Ok ban me for not supporting a low quality fill in for Joey and for being critic of a second Vegas run at the expenses of an European tour. You come off as such a bitter selfish little person. Expense of a European tour? Do you ever think that maybe they are doing a Vegas residency because they can't tour Europe right now? If they can't make it through a residency, how the hell do you expect them to do a world tour? Steven is just about 75 years old and has had plenty of known health issues. Tom has battled cancer and looks pretty frail. Joey obviously has his own issues and has been struggling to keep up for over a decade. Who knows what else they are all dealing with. Maybe their days of touring around the world are just over. Again, they are humans and not superheroes. Constantly bitching and calling for them to retire because they can't tour the world is pathetic and selfish. You keep saying you are done with them.. The band is done.. What are you here for? There are plenty of fans that want them to survive in whatever capacity they are capable of.
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Post by VoodooMedicineMan on Dec 15, 2022 0:54:58 GMT -5
pillis you're generally one of the more interesting posters around here, but it's really time to move on from the constant drivel about this tour. There's a point where excessive venting turns into incessant whining, and you've blown past that line. We get it, European fans got jobbed. The band isn't perfect, never has been and never will be. Their overall professionalism leaves lot to be desired, some members more than others. There are things they can control and things they can't, age is becoming a bigger factor in their reliability. Are they still capable of putting on a great show? Hell yea. Is there a high level of risk when making plans to see them? Sure. That's certainly an ongoing discussion. However, having every thread digress into that gets tiresome.
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Post by pillis on Dec 15, 2022 5:40:17 GMT -5
pillis you're generally one of the more interesting posters around here, but it's really time to move on from the constant drivel about this tour. There's a point where excessive venting turns into incessant whining, and you've blown past that line. We get it, European fans got jobbed. The band isn't perfect, never has been and never will be. Their overall professionalism leaves lot to be desired, some members more than others. There are things they can control and things they can't, age is becoming a bigger factor in their reliability. Are they still capable of putting on a great show? Hell yea. Is there a high level of risk when making plans to see them? Sure. That's certainly an ongoing discussion. However, having every thread digress into that gets tiresome. Fair enough. It's just interesting that 90% of people here talk trash about Steven or half of Aerosmith's discography from years when the band played the best shows and was at its most professional behavior, and quite frankly unmatched around the world for their consistent touring, quality of performances and overall media activity but then I am the rude and whiney one for complaining about actual critical things that have been happening. Joey went as fa as re-recording all the NL sessions back in the day because HE IS A FUCKING PROFESSIONAL and a key element to the Aerosmith sound, and now he is kicked out of the band forcing him to sue? He had to prove his skills with auditions while Steven is allowed to ruin half of their songs at every show or Joe is allowed to collapse on tour with washed up Hollywood actors that pretend to be rockstars? To get what? A rescheduled, half cancelled, recycled vegas reidency with the exact same set and production from 3 years ago? And the problem here is MFAD or JPP?? Those were career peaks compared to the mess of 2020-2022. Covid can't always be used as an excuse at this point. As for the age I absolutely agree, I have never taken any show for granted and these guys owe us absolutely nothing after decades of commitment. That is why I was open for a complete retirement, especially after Joey's "hiatus". But if they choose to work then they play by the rules just like anyone else in the live business. Forcing fans to risk thousand of dollars and days off from work to fly to Vegas, which is actually in the middle of nowhere and not exactly a nice place for a short vacation on the side, knowing they could cancel at any moment, is not professional. To me it's clear they were losing so much money from cancelling Europe that Vegas was a quick plan B to recoup some of that. Nothing was moved by passion for their fans or will to play some rock n roll, and it showed with the setlists. My last hope is that they can put these awful years behind and make an actual 50th celebration for their debut album next year, which will mark their actual 50th anniversary as it's usually the first release that counts, WITH Joey for one last hurrah. If not, peace.
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Post by tomhamilton on Dec 15, 2022 13:56:32 GMT -5
Fair enough. It's just interesting that 90% of people here talk trash about Steven or half of Aerosmith's discography from years when the band played the best shows and was at its most professional behavior, and quite frankly unmatched around the world for their consistent touring, quality of performances and overall media activity but then I am the rude and whiney one for complaining about actual critical things that have been happening. Joey went as fa as re-recording all the NL sessions back in the day because HE IS A FUCKING PROFESSIONAL and a key element to the Aerosmith sound, and now he is kicked out of the band forcing him to sue? He had to prove his skills with auditions while Steven is allowed to ruin half of their songs at every show or Joe is allowed to collapse on tour with washed up Hollywood actors that pretend to be rockstars? To get what? A rescheduled, half cancelled, recycled vegas reidency with the exact same set and production from 3 years ago? And the problem here is MFAD or JPP?? Those were career peaks compared to the mess of 2020-2022. Covid can't always be used as an excuse at this point. As for the age I absolutely agree, I have never taken any show for granted and these guys owe us absolutely nothing after decades of commitment. That is why I was open for a complete retirement, especially after Joey's "hiatus". But if they choose to work then they play by the rules just like anyone else in the live business. Forcing fans to risk thousand of dollars and days off from work to fly to Vegas, which is actually in the middle of nowhere and not exactly a nice place for a short vacation on the side, knowing they could cancel at any moment, is not professional. To me it's clear they were losing so much money from cancelling Europe that Vegas was a quick plan B to recoup some of that. Nothing was moved by passion for their fans or will to play some rock n roll, and it showed with the setlists. My last hope is that they can put these awful years behind and make an actual 50th celebration for their debut album next year, which will mark their actual 50th anniversary as it's usually the first release that counts, WITH Joey for one last hurrah. If not, peace. While I agree with you, and I think your complains are right, there's one point where I disagree. No one is forcing fans to travel and see them, is a risk we choose to take or not to take. Sure, given the recent history with them, chances are bigger on shows not happening all of a sudden, but all in all, it's been a great ride, and whetever the outcome, I'm more than happy with what they've given me.
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Post by VoodooMedicineMan on Dec 15, 2022 14:52:16 GMT -5
pillis There isn't anything wrong with having a list of grievances. You're certainly entitled to your opinions and you have a lot of valid points. The issue is letting all those grievances spill over into every post regardless of the topic being discussed. You're certainly not the first person to troll the boards. Old sellouts has a habit of it (along with solid posts from time to time), although his troll posts are more of the Abe Simpson nature. Your JPP and MFAD stuff has always been entertaining. You've certainly pushed buttons there with some over the top superlatives and given it right back. I don't disagree with your view of Las Vegas, but it is a top destination for a lot of people. I just read they had 42.5 visitors during 2019. I can get the Joey situation being a deal breaker for people. In my opinion he didn't do himself any favors with the video he released being locked out of the Grammy rehearsals where he didn't appear to be in any condition to play. I don't like to speculate on anyone's health though, so I'll leave it at that. The setlists being overly static is a bit of a reach. They've mixed it up more this round than last and all things considered, they still sound pretty good.
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Post by tomass on Dec 15, 2022 17:27:04 GMT -5
Your JPP and MFAD stuff has always been entertaining. You've certainly pushed buttons there with some over the top superlatives and given it right back. I don't disagree with your view of Las Vegas, but it is a top destination for a lot of people. I just read they had 42.5 visitors during 2019. I can get the Joey situation being a deal breaker for people. In my opinion he didn't do himself any favors with the video he released being locked out of the Grammy rehearsals where he didn't appear to be in any condition to play. I don't like to speculate on anyone's health though, so I'll leave it at that. The setlists being overly static is a bit of a reach. They've mixed it up more this round than last and all things considered, they still sound pretty good. I agree about Joey. If Joey was able to perform at a high level, I believe he would still be there. The guy has looked like he has been struggling for a long time and drumming is the most physically demanding position in a band. I HATED Bill Ward not being there for Sabbath's final tour, but I get why he wasn't. This guy's drumming doesn't fit the band like a glove, but he also hasn't been playing with the band for 50 years either. Steven is a drummer, if he thought Joey was able to do a better job, Joey would be there. He isn't there and if that is a deal breaker for some, they should just leave instead of threatening to do so every other post. And I also have been digging the setlist and feel the band sounds pretty damn good. Good enough to put on a rock show better than most of their peers and bands half their age. I have seen them over 30 times and the last show I saw, was up with the best of them.
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Post by selloutrus on Dec 15, 2022 17:31:14 GMT -5
pillis boards. Old sellouts has a habit of it (along with solid posts from time to time), although his troll posts are more of the Abe Simpson nature. Huh, what??? Not old, just experienced😉
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Post by anaix3l on Dec 15, 2022 18:39:33 GMT -5
I do agree with pillis on some things. I find some of the comments on their live performances unnecessarily harsh. And undeserved. Like this one on the previous page of this thread: Maybe he ear monitors started to actually work and he realized how bad they sounded so h decided to cancel the remaining gigs. I never got to see them before 2010, but I have zero reasons to complain about the quality of the live performances I got from that point on. I can understand that some of the people have very fond memories of shows from the previous decades and I have zero reason to doubt a good time wasn't had at those earlier shows, even though I know those memories are not completely accurate. I also agree that the whole Joey situation could have been handled better. Aerosmith is those five guys. Joey is an important part of the band. Also agree that there's good stuff on both JPP and MFAD. And by the way, I've been very upset too about them choosing to fuck off to Vegas instead of, um, you know, actually doing a world tour. Now I can't know for sure that was the case, but at the concert in Berlin in 2017, Nobu said they were planning a world tour in 2019. If that is the case, it means they calculated Vegas would bring more money and pushed the European dates to 2020 and well, we all know what happened next. So basically, the Vegas residency stole what may have been my last chance to see them. I was very upset about that in 2019. And I was very upset when they chose Vegas once more this year. Rationally, I know why they chose Vegas, but it doesn't change the fact that their choice left me without a choice. And that's precisely it. If they're playing in Vegas, I can't see them and there's nothing I can do about it, so I'm better off just forgetting about it. Obviously, the forgetting about it didn't go that well, but that part is my problem, not theirs. This is also a part of the why I disagree with the "forcing fans to come see them in Vegas" part. If anything, they forced not seeing them on me because it would have taken a fucking miracle to get the visa to see them. And miracles don't happen in 2022. Another part of it is, let's be realistic... save for ridiculously uncommon situations, nothing external can force anyone to go see a concert. I can get the sense of urgency, the feel that maybe this is the one last chance you'll ever get, the fear of regretting not going. I have experienced all those as well. But at the end of the day, it's a personal choice. Choose to take the chance or not. If it works out, it's wonderful. If it doesn't, it's a catastrophe. In mid-November, I took a chance for the Kreator tour. Because I've had tickets for it for over three years. Since September 2019. And to be fair, I have had doubts about it. So many things had changed since buying the tickets. My financial situation went to Hell while the costs of the trip went up, the number of bands on the bill went up and so did the doubts over me physically being able to last through a show since I broke my foot at the end of this October (less than a year after breaking my kneecap and busting my back), the time of the year the tour took place went from pleasant mid-spring to freezing my ass in late November to mid-December, the order of the shows got messed up... They postponed the tour the Monday after the weekend I booked the trip. Non-refundable because I'm a brokeass and in 2019, when the show was announced for the next spring, I figured that would be a better time to see the shows in the Nordic countries. Which happen to to be fucking expensive. So... given I've spent the money now and the tour was only postponed to February, I won't be able to raise enough to afford it then. Was I angry? Yes, of course! The tour was postponed with 11 days before the day it was supposed to start. They were certainly healthy enough to be touring in the US at the time of the announcement and other tours are certainly happening across Europe at the same time their tour was supposed to happen. And they certainly don't have a history of cancelling or postponing tours pre-covid. But it was my choice not to return the tickets and book the trip. Because I was afraid I'll never be able to do this concert trip across Northern Europe if I give it up now. Not financially and not physically. Well, it looks like it won't happen in this life. Maybe next life. Oops, I'm not a cat...
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Post by lordofthethighs on Dec 24, 2022 14:39:46 GMT -5
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