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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 18:36:23 GMT -5
yet Palestine is the one throwing missiles over the boarder and they just broke the 24 hour of peace. Israel once and for all should line up a 1000 buses and a 100 planes and take the whole population to Jordan, flatten the whole area and be done with the mess. Could anyone hate them anymore? No. They will never win in public opinion.
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Post by pillis on Aug 2, 2014 20:22:32 GMT -5
I held a couple of courses at university and I studied the whole bloody story since the beginning. Unfortunately there's a lot of disinformation (and bad information) so it's very difficult to have a proper opinion about the current situation.
To cut it short, we western countries put Israel there to have control over the middle-east using the whole holocaust story as an excuse, then palestinian people obviosuly didn't like that, then the ONU came in and fucked up everything, Israel didn't respected the ONU resolutions (which were already very severe towards palestinians) and expanded with VIOLENCE. So it's no surpise that year after year extremism and terrorism gain popularity among palestinians but we have to bare in mind that they just defend and demand their land and they have weak weapons, they have no army (as a matter of fact they started this protest with stones years ago) while Israel has one of the most modern and powerful armies in the world...this cannot be called a war because it's simply a genocide. So basically this terrorism thing is our fault, violence generates violence. Hamas has no intention to stop the conflict just because they're insane, they do not represent palestinian people but when poor people are desperate and afraid they become violent, they are reluctant to talk...it's normal.
If you look for what Israel has done over the years you can come to just one conclusion.
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Post by AeroCooper on Aug 2, 2014 20:55:12 GMT -5
Look at Pillis, posting everywhere today!
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Post by pillis on Aug 2, 2014 21:11:25 GMT -5
I think I'm going to make lots of enemies on this thread but anyway, it's good to talk about those kinds of things once in a while. I'm also curious to know what's the perception of the situation in other countries.
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Post by gwb on Aug 3, 2014 1:48:40 GMT -5
Using Pillis's logic, I guess everybody can backtrack every bad thing they've done in their life and blame it on somebody else (like their parents, their grade school teacher, their vicious old dog, etc.). That's liberal utopia, where nobody or no organization takes personal responsibility for anything, blames everything bad on somebody else, and relies on the government to get us out of that mess (which they never seem to do).
In the meantime, "anything goes" and everything in society should be tolerated, unless of course it doesn't conform to the liberal point of view. Then it must be shunned, ridiculed and, of course, reported tirelessly on the mainstream media.
Anyway, Pillis, what documented history exists to show that we "put Israel" there to have control over the Middle East and, therefore, we are to blame for the mess over there?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 2:10:06 GMT -5
Using Pillis's logic, I guess everybody can backtrack every bad thing they've done in their life and blame it on somebody else (like their parents, their grade school teacher, their vicious old dog, etc.). That's liberal utopia, where nobody or no organization takes personal responsibility for anything, blames everything bad on somebody else, and relies on the government to get us out of that mess (which they never seem to do). In the meantime, "anything goes" and everything in society should be tolerated, unless of course it doesn't conform to the liberal point of view. Then it must be shunned, ridiculed and, of course, reported tirelessly on the mainstream media. Anyway, Pillis, what documented history exists to show that we "put Israel" there to have control over the Middle East and, therefore, we are to blame for the mess over there? This confused me also. Jews have been there forever. Like all land, it has changed hands over and over. European jews started to arrive in the 20's and that is where Israel grew out of. So damn confusing how God is good and in the name of God we come to so much hate. In the end I believe we all worship the same God, just many paths to "it". |
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Post by pillis on Aug 3, 2014 7:42:01 GMT -5
The first Jews came there and actually bought small plots of lands so it wasn't a problem because palestinians didn't think that 20-30 years later, a whole new country would settle down on their land killing people, building huge walls to keep out palestinians from schools and water supplies, destroying local villages and building their own...and btw jews were always a minority there and they're not entitled to have a whole country because it doesn't make any sense a you don't create a nation like that gathering people from all around the world just because they share the same religion. My "logic" is not a personal way of thinking, it's just stuying the history and get the facts straight. Then if you really think that the Brits and Americans put there Israel and gave them weapons (especially us Italians) just because we pity them and we wanted to say sorry for the holocaust that's your way of seeing things, the facts are different tho.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 10:28:07 GMT -5
Jews settled there in 800 bc and it went back and forth who controlled what ever since.
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Post by pillis on Aug 3, 2014 11:18:32 GMT -5
Jews settled there in 800 bc and it went back and forth who controlled what ever since. That was never their "land" they moved there just because it's written on the old testament but they always were a minority, no one says that they cannot live in Palestine but it's absurd that they've built a nation in someone else's home, with violence. No one cares about the bible, Netanyahu just want power, money and control over the whole region. They could have a symbolic embassey in Jerusalem or even just a small city, like the vatcan city...it's symbolic still they have lot of power and catholic people don't come to Rome tryin to conquer the whole region -.- |
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Post by gwb on Aug 3, 2014 17:04:08 GMT -5
Jews settled there in 800 bc and it went back and forth who controlled what ever since. That was never their "land" they moved there just because it's written on the old testament but they always were a minority, no one says that they cannot live in Palestine but it's absurd that they've built a nation in someone else's home, with violence. No one cares about the bible, Netanyahu just want power, money and control over the whole region. They could have a symbolic embassey in Jerusalem or even just a small city, like the vatcan city...it's symbolic still they have lot of power and catholic people don't come to Rome tryin to conquer the whole region -.- So where are the rest of the Jews supposed to go, if they only have a symbolic embassy there? Maybe they can move to their "friendly" neighboring countries (like Syria, etc.) or maybe they can immigrate to your country, Pillis. |
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Post by pillis on Aug 3, 2014 17:19:48 GMT -5
That was never their "land" they moved there just because it's written on the old testament but they always were a minority, no one says that they cannot live in Palestine but it's absurd that they've built a nation in someone else's home, with violence. No one cares about the bible, Netanyahu just want power, money and control over the whole region. They could have a symbolic embassey in Jerusalem or even just a small city, like the vatcan city...it's symbolic still they have lot of power and catholic people don't come to Rome tryin to conquer the whole region -.- So where are the rest of the Jews supposed to go, if they only have a symbolic embassy there? Maybe they can move to their "friendly" neighboring countries (like Syria, etc.) or maybe they can immigrate to your country, Pillis. They shouldn't have moved there in the first place lol! They're people who share a religion but they think they are a special population who have the right to have their own country. Christians can be Italian, French, Americans or whatever and they live in many different countries...jews used to lived that way too but then started to gather in Palestin but the real problem was the that British and American people promoted this jew emigration and then establish Israel. |
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Post by selloutrus on Aug 3, 2014 18:46:17 GMT -5
So Phyllis thinks it would be alright if the Jewish population or Muslims or Africans can gather in large populations and take over Italy??
That would be fair according to her logic.
Since I am sure she does not think Italians are a special population in Italy who have the right to have their own country.
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Post by pillis on Aug 3, 2014 18:50:06 GMT -5
So Phyllis thinks it would be alright if the Jewish population or Muslims or Africans can gather in large populations and take over Italy?? That would be fair is she agrees to that. Since I am sure she does not think Italians are a special population in Italy. Gosh I was sarcastic -.- If a Jew is born in the Stats he's american, it's that simple. It's crazy the idea that they feel the need to have their own country just because it's written on an old book. Then again the problem here is not religious but it's political. |
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Post by gwb on Aug 3, 2014 18:56:20 GMT -5
I don't think many of us are following your logic Phyllis. You said the Jews don't need or deserve their own country, but then again they shouldn't have to move anywhere else. So what are they supposed to do? Give the land back to the Muslims and then ask them if it's okay if they (the Jews) just continue to hang around there forever? I bet the Muslims would agree to that, especially since the Muslims try to kill the Jews at every chance they get.
You seem like a friendly but VERY naive person Phyllis. This is also apparent with many of your comments regarding Aerosmith. Do the rest of the young people in your country think like you do?
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Post by pillis on Aug 3, 2014 19:48:40 GMT -5
I don't think many of us are following your logic Phyllis. You said the Jews don't need or deserve their own country, but then again they shouldn't have to move anywhere else. So what are they supposed to do? Give the land back to the Muslims and then ask them if it's okay if they (the Jews) just continue to hang around there forever? I bet the Muslims would agree to that, especially since the Muslims try to kill the Jews at every chance they get. You seem like a friendly but VERY naive person Phyllis. This is also apparent with many of your comments regarding Aerosmith. Do the rest of the young people in your country think like you do? No you didn't get what I was trying to say because I fucked up my english, sorry (I said that they should not have moved there, to palestin, in the first place). All I can say is gather as much information as you can and educate yourself on the subject a bit more. I don't want to sound rude or arrogant so I'm sorry if you're taking offence but I studied a lot about this. At this point the situation is tragical and we all know how it's going to end so it's really too late to debate on the current situation as no one is willing to change it. But, we can discuss about the origin of the conflict as I surely do not have the definitive resolution. One thing I know, the Jews weren't supposed to go there in such a huge number founding a country with violence going against ONU's resolution (which were already very favorable for Israel). Jews shouldn't be classified as a specific or special population but as a mere group of people who share the same religion, like we do for catholics and so on. This wouldn't be a problem if it was just a religious thing among the Jews, it became a problem when Great Britain and the States decided to use this situation in a politcal way to have control over the middle-east. Then during the 2nd ww the jews escaped in palestin and something had to be done as the indigenous were getting worried and upset about the situation. The biggest "mistake" that has been done was the ONU's resolution 181 in 1947 (which even Great Britain didn't fully approved as it was too severe). After the 2nd ww the situation could have been resolved in other ways but the States, URSS, France etc...wanted this to happen...then Israel blew everything out of propotions on its own (well, not really its own as Italy and United States are the biggest weapons suppliers for Israel and no one is doing a big nothing about the situation). This all story about Hamas, the terrorism and the fear of Islamic extremism begun because of us, because we made those people so desperate that SOME of them gathered in violent groups which are not fighting to free palestin, they're fighting because they have crazy and twisted religious beliefs. If Israel really wanted to save palestinians from the terrorism it wouldn't be bombarding the citizens killing thousends of innocent people for DECADES! I would leave my Aerosmith tastes outside of this topic, I'm a really open-minded person, I am young and I grew up discovering the 70s when I was experiencing the 90s so I do enjoy many different kinds of music and that's why I like every Aerosmith's album, although I have a preference for the 70s ones. Then it's good for everyone to talk about this conflict as we can get different perspectives. You asked me if young people here all share my opinion, well no, but I would say that the majority now, thanks to the internet and the possibility to have more sources of information (as our tv and pressed information is terrible) is gettin more into the whole story so I would say that now young people are more aware of the situation while 10-15 years ago it was different, there was lot of ignorance on this subject. |
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