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Post by selloutrus on Aug 20, 2014 19:21:25 GMT -5
I am certainly not offended if you call me a racist however I, in all candor, am a REALIST and not a racist.
I speak based on real life experiences attending an integrated school system and serving 25 years in law enforcement.
My eyes are wide open my friend.
It seems the only folks who eyes are closed these days are the main stream media and those white liberals who suffer from self persecution known as "white guilt".(actually that describes the main stream media).
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Post by petertherock on Aug 20, 2014 19:55:25 GMT -5
I can't let it go. Daryl and Selly, you know what you are saying IS completely racist, right? If you say so Obama! |
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Post by petertherock on Aug 20, 2014 19:55:46 GMT -5
A good article by Howie Carr! howiecarrshow.com/best-of-facts-free-reporting-hands-down-i-mean-up/Posted by Howie Carr in Recent Columns Best of facts-free reporting hands-down…I mean upI began to lose interest in Ferguson MO when it was first reported that the late Michael Brown was an “aspiring rapper.” Hadn’t heard that one yet? It was in the LA Times, under the headline: “Michael Brown’s raps: Money, sex, drugs – and a vulnerable side.” Of course he had to have a vulnerable side. That’s why he was known as “the Gentle Giant.” He didn’t look terribly gentle in that closed-circuit video of him shoving the owner of the Ferguson Market when he was stealing the box of Swisher Sweets just before he got shot. But the demonstrators could see right through that – “the man” had photo-shopped the video, or so they said live on national TV. The cops lifted the curfew Monday night. The demonstrators reacted with their usual restraint and maturity. Only 78 were lugged. Now CNN and others are reporting is that the cops have a dozen or so witnesses backing up the cop, that the Gentle Giant was “bum-rushing” Officer Wilson when he had to open fire. But don’t bother the demonstrators with facts. Especially those engaging in “looting tourism.” That phrase appeared in the Washington Post, you know, the same newspaper that reported that the autopsy showed marijuana in the aspiring rapper’s bloodstream. Not exactly a hotbed of right wing conspiracies, the Washington Post. Didn’t somebody else who got shot recently have marijuana in his bloodstream? Trayvon Martin was the name, I believe. He was killed by an Hispanic, er, a “white Hispanic,” as The New York Times dubbed George Zimmerman, in case the mobs were on the verge of moving on to the next faux outrage. If ever there was a time for the mainstream media to cover something the way they cover an Obama scandal, that is to say, not cover it, like Fast & Furious or Benghazi, this is it. “Nothing to see here, folks, move along!” But don’t hold your breath. Instead, CNN has Don Lemon, fresh from espousing his theory that a Black Hole swallowed Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, now reporting live from the QuikTrip and talking about how he “understands.” Understands what? Being attacked by a 300-pound hophead? Looting liquor stores? All the players from the NFL team known as the Washington (they may not be named) ran out onto the field Monday night with their hands up, chanting, “Hands Up! Don’t Shoot!” As someone suggested yesterday, wouldn’t a more appropriate slogan at this point be: “Hands Up! Don’t Loot!” The Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have flown into St. Louis, as if it’s an oldtimers’ weekend and they’ll be introduced on the Molotov-cocktail circuit as charter members of the Rabble Rouser Hall of Fame. And now today Eric Holder, the attorney general, flies down to do his bit to stir the pot. He has 40 FBI agents assigned to the Gentle Giant case. How many are working on the IRS scandal? This is the guy who refused to prosecute the New Black Panthers Party for intimidating white voters in Philadelphia in 2008. He calls blacks “my people.” I’m sure Eric Holder is keeping a very open mind about the facts of the case. Now, more breaking news from Ferguson: the Gentle Giant was turning his life around. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 19:58:07 GMT -5
I can't let it go. Daryl and Selly, you know what you are saying IS completely racist, right? If you say so Obama! Seriously? |
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Post by AeroCooper on Aug 20, 2014 20:19:18 GMT -5
Good discussion guys, lets keep it clean.
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Post by donnaroxx on Aug 20, 2014 21:44:14 GMT -5
Coop, I am picturing you holding that little red tassle that the ref in "Dodgeball" dangled in front of Ben Stiller!  |
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Post by 4bits4licks76 on Aug 23, 2014 0:43:03 GMT -5
I'm not really into blaming the victims of our racist society for the hardships and obstacles that our racist society forces them to struggle against. We have a long, long, loooonnngg history of treating blacks like animals! Jim Crow was still a thing only 50 years ago! I think your reasoning is backwards -- it's not as if the animalistic behavior of blacks is the thing that causes us whites to treat them like animals. Rather, it's our own fucked-up attitudes about race that causes us to treat blacks like animals. I would say that our culturally-entrenched tendency to compare black people to chimps and monkeys is largely to blame for why we treat them like animals. For a start, let's fix our own screwed-up attitudes and see if that improves the crime rate a bit, right? It's very easy to criticize black people for living lives of crime and poverty, but we're not actually doing much to help them avoid lives of crime and poverty. If you're white, then it means that you're the beneficiary of a lifetime of privileges that black people generally don't have access to. White people love to imagine that they "made it on their own" and "pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps," and that they're somehow morally superior to black people. But the thing most whites fail to realize is that society treats you very differently based on the fact that you're white. Society offers you a huge number of un-earned advantages and privileges based on your whiteness, and those perks are actually a huge part of the reason why you aren't a poverty-stricken criminal. For example, I'm sure that your race isn't held against you each time you apply for a job, which means that it's much easier for you to find work than it is for many black people to find work. For another example, I'm sure that you don't need to worry about being harassed by the police when you're out running errands. These are un-earned privileges that you cash in on every day of your life. So, let's not blame the victims, here. About poverty - there's that Judas Priest song, "Breaking the Law." I think it sums up the problem with young black men pretty well. Poverty often does lead to crime. There needs to be more of a serious effort to lift blacks out of poverty, but that's probably not going to happen until our cultural attitudes towards blackness change. As for criminals, whenever you hear of a white guy committing a crime, you never hear people saying "ALL THE WHITES ARE EVIL CRIMINALS!" in spite of the fact that white people commit plenty of crime! Whenever a man rapes a woman, people don't all say "MEN ARE ALL RAPISTS WHO DESERVE TO BE TREATED LIKE ANIMALS!" -- even though rapes are nearly always perpetrated only by men. We white people love to think of ourselves as "individuals!" But, we're also a little too quick to throw these giant generalizations onto black people. It is wrong to treat an entire group of people as animals because a few members of that group do illegal things. The fact that we do tend to treat black people like animals pretty much assures us that black men will a lways have a tough time functioning in our society. With our cultural attitudes towards black people being what they are, it doesn't really surprise me that so many little black boys grow up to be angry, antisocial black men. How would you feel if you lived in a society that reminded you that you were not-quite-human and gorilla-like every single day of your life from birth? How do you think it'd affect your life if those kinds of cultural attitudes had been directed at you? I'm the soon-to-be wife of a Chinese man (I don't want to hear anyone start with all that "model minority" nonsense -- Asians, who are too well-aware of our culture of racism against all who are non-white, tend to really hate it and resent it when white people hold them up as an example and say "Whhhhyyy can't the blacks be more like you?  ") and as the soon-to-be wife of a Chinese man, I've become intensely aware of how white people tend to be blithely unaware of racial matters. You have to be a white person in order to seriously think that racism isn't a massive and hugely oppressive problem in this country. I'm white, and I used to think that I wasn't racist. I thought that way because our racist culture is something that's essentially invisible to white people who benefit every day from their many white privileges without even being aware of it. I feel embarrassed about my past beliefs, and I'm glad my eyes have been opened. Racist white people often vehemently deny that they are racist, and they tend honestly believe that they are not racist -- because racism is incredibly invisible to whites. I never was able to see this or understand all the special privileges I have as a result of my white-ness until I got involved with a 'person of color' I still often think very racist thoughts. It is extremely hard to avoid thinking racist thoughts. Just last night, I was having dinner with my fiancee's parents, and they were telling me a story about how they went abroad to Europe and were treated like "Stupid Americans." My instinctive gut reaction to their story was "You aren't really Americans, you're ASIAN!" Most white people do have that attitude towards Asian folks! I find it very difficult to resist having racist thoughts about blacks, too -- even the folks I see around campus, professors and such, who are obviously not out to rape and kill and rob me. Racist thinking is a hell of a hard thing to overcome and white people are afforded the special privilege of being blissfully unaware of it for the most part. I don't know what decade or century you are living in or where you live, but I don't see and have never seen the majority of American society treat black people like monkeys. I am 47 years old and have seen improvements in the attitudes of how black people are treated and looked upon. We are not there yet, but I have hope and see how the younger generation is far more accepting than generations past. The older generations were and are ignorant when it comes to racial tolerance. My grandmother used the "N" word on occasion, however my parents never used racial slurs to describe any race. I guess that's why I found those words to be so cruel and vile when I heard on occasion a friends parent referring to a black person as a "N". I never understood the hatred of an entire race. "It's very easy to criticize black people for living lives of crime and poverty, but we're not actually doing much to help them avoid lives of crime and poverty. If you're white, then it means that you're the beneficiary of a lifetime of privileges that black people generally don't have access to. White people love to imagine that they "made it on their own" and "pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps," and that they're somehow morally superior to black people. But the thing most whites fail to realize is that society treats you very differently based on the fact that you're white. Society offers you a huge number of un-earned advantages and privileges based on your whiteness, and those perks are actually a huge part of the reason why you aren't a poverty-stricken criminal. For example, I'm sure that your race isn't held against you each time you apply for a job, which means that it's much easier for you to find work than it is for many black people to find work. For another example, I'm sure that you don't need to worry about being harassed by the police when you're out running errands. These are un-earned privileges that you cash in on every day of your life. So, let's not blame the victims, here."
I agree with all of this. Almost. White people can't help the black community avoid crime. They need to solve this problem. Much of this problem is rooted in the fact that far too many black fathers are absent from the home. They need to take a stand and be there for the children they made. They have been dealt a shitty hand, but the answer is to fight and do whats right, not to abandon their families, become criminals and waste their lives in and out of prison. They need to seek out the "pillars" of the black community. Black men & woman who, despite all the disadvantages, growing up in the ghetto where there were drugs & violence all around and only one parent, were able to steer clear of all the evils of their environment and finish high school and graduate college & perhaps graduate school. I know I can find many black men my age that have become far more successful than I, despite the statistical fact that says they should be in prison or dead. If they can do it, then so can other black children. But they need to have thees mentors. They need to be taught that they can strive for something better. I don't think teaching them to dwell on that white America has all the advantages as that will just create animosity & anger. If they rise up, take responsibility for their actions, help their communities, then eventually the differences between the races will diminish. Poverty does not lead to crime. Go look at the crime statistics on the great depression. POINT-COUNTERPOINT DEBATE: Does poverty contribute to more crime? - NO
BUZ WILLIAMS
Those who fall into poverty do not lose their sense of what is right and wrong. If they did, then the Great Depression era would have had one of the highest crime rates for the last 100 years. According to James Q. Wilson, the noted academic and crime expert, there was a reduction in urban crime in the 1930s, even at a time when unemployment was as high as 25 percent.
If poverty contributes to more crime, then crime trends would follow economic trends. But that is not the case. In an article in the New Republic dated Dec. 22, 2010, Bradford Plumer, in discussing the two big crime epidemics in the 20th century, reported, "the first took root in the late 1960s, during a period of healthy growth; the other came during the economic doldrums of the late '80s and early '90s. The only constant here, it seems, is that both outbreaks were fueled by a major expansion of drug markets: heroin in the 1970s, crack in the 1990s." This indicates that crime is not necessarily affected by poverty, but that other factors, like illegal drug use, have a more powerful impact.
Confirming this fact are U.S. crime rate statistics. Since 2007, the number of crimes - both violent and property crimes - has steadily declined at least through 2011. The only exception was a very slight uptick in the number of burglaries in 2011. This decline in the number of crimes occurred during a period in which the population increased almost 10 million and the number of poor was reported to be 46.2 million, according to the US Census Bureau, or one in six, according to an NPR report dated Sept. 12, 2012.
Other factors have a much greater affect on crime. Drug and alcohol abuse cause more impact. Single-parent families apparently have a negative consequence on crime. I've seen no contradictory evidence to refute Ann Coulter's well-documented information that "the strongest predictor of whether a person will end up in prison is that he was raised by a single mother."
"How would you feel if you lived in a society that reminded you that you were not-quite-human and gorilla-like every single day of your life from birth? How do you think it'd affect your life if those kinds of cultural attitudes had been directed at you?"
Seriously? Your talking like most of America is the KKK. I believe most Americans are decent people and don't view black people like this. Even people who have prejudices are not necessarily racists. Right or wrong, there are plenty of white people who believe that all black people deserve all the rights granted under the Constitution, but wouldn't want their white daughter with a black man. That's not racist, that's being prejudiced. Not saying it's right, but there is a difference. I think your views on the state of black and white relations are seriously skewed and not accurate. "Racist white people often vehemently deny that they are racist, and they tend honestly believe that they are not racist -- because racism is incredibly invisible to whites. I never was able to see this or understand all the special privileges I have as a result of my white-ness until I got involved with a 'person of color'
I still often think very racist thoughts. It is extremely hard to avoid thinking racist thoughts. Just last night, I was having dinner with my fiancee's parents, and they were telling me a story about how they went abroad to Europe and were treated like "Stupid Americans." My instinctive gut reaction to their story was "You aren't really Americans, you're ASIAN!" Most white people do have that attitude towards Asian folks! I find it very difficult to resist having racist thoughts about blacks, too -- even the folks I see around campus, professors and such, who are obviously not out to rape and kill and rob me. Racist thinking is a hell of a hard thing to overcome and white people are afforded the special privilege of being blissfully unaware of it for the most part."
My "White Privileges" don't make me racist, even if I don't recognize them, which I do. I am afforded better treatment because of my skin color, but not if I was to walk down the street at night in Harlem I suspect. Then my skin color would be a detriment to my health. However, statistically speaking, most black people could walk down your average middle class or upper class neighborhood without any problems as statistically it is proven that there is far more black on black crime than white on black crime. "Most white people do have that attitude towards Asian folks!" Seriously? You know what most white peoples attitudes are?
I'm not surprised you admit to racist thoughts. Some of your declarations of how you see white America in their view of blacks is troubling. I can't remember the last time I heard, or read anyone revering to black people as Monkeys & apes. I think for the most part those days are over. Perhaps living in liberal Massachusetts has skewed my view and things are much worse where you live. Also, if America is so racist, how did Obama get elected? Black America only represents about 13% of the entire population where whites are about 77%. Here is a surprise for you. White America elected to put a black man in the White House. Without white people voting for Obama, he would not have gotten elected. This shows that the majority of Americans are not racist, nor prejudiced. Again, we have a ways to go regarding racial equality and I think white America has come a long way. I think it's time for the black community to take responsibility and stop blaming the white man for all their problems. They have created many of their own. |
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Post by AeroCooper on Aug 23, 2014 6:48:17 GMT -5
I agree with 4bits that attitudes are improving with every generation. The 'kids' in my area hold black people on an immediate pedestal based only on their skin color. Is this a form of racism? I think so, but it is a beneficial one, so probably no one is going to complain about it, any more than they complain about the stereotype of all Asians being smart or all blacks having big dicks, regardless if these stereotypes are true or not. No real point here, other than saying I agree that attitudes are getting better all the time. Is there still a problem? Fuck yeah, but not nearly as bad as it was less than 50 years ago. Centuries of oppression will not go away in just a few years, no matter how much it should. We learn from our elders, and we learn from our peers. We also learn from our children, if we are smart. Change is slow, but not non-existent.
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Post by petertherock on Aug 23, 2014 10:41:22 GMT -5
"It's very easy to criticize black people for living lives of crime and poverty, but we're not actually doing much to help them avoid lives of crime and poverty. If you're white, then it means that you're the beneficiary of a lifetime of privileges that black people generally don't have access to. White people love to imagine that they "made it on their own" and "pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps," and that they're somehow morally superior to black people. But the thing most whites fail to realize is that society treats you very differently based on the fact that you're white. Society offers you a huge number of un-earned advantages and privileges based on your whiteness, and those perks are actually a huge part of the reason why you aren't a poverty-stricken criminal. For example, I'm sure that your race isn't held against you each time you apply for a job, which means that it's much easier for you to find work than it is for many black people to find work. For another example, I'm sure that you don't need to worry about being harassed by the police when you're out running errands. These are un-earned privileges that you cash in on every day of your life. So, let's not blame the victims, here."
This is absolute horse shit! No race has gotten more government hand outs than blacks, no race has gotten more help (ever hear of the Unites White College Fund? Yeah me either) No group has benefited from the discrimination known as affirmative action than blacks. If you are black and apply for a government job...or even most private jobs your name goes to the top of the list no matter what your qualifications are. I am white and I grew up in poverty for most of my childhood. There was a long time where I didn't know where our next meal was going to come from. There were years I had very little or nothing under my Christmas tree. I never had the money to go to college. Despite all of this I never even thought of robbing or killing people because I was poor and grew up in the projects. In a lot of ways blacks today have it a lot easier than whites and there aren't any blacks alive who were slaves in the 1800's! |
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Post by donnaroxx on Aug 23, 2014 12:01:06 GMT -5
I have to agree with the recent posts as well. Further, if I'm not mistaken, it can be beneficial to be a minority when looking for work. Some corporation actually benefit financially from hiring a certain number of minorities. Kickbacks R Us. To take Petertherock's post further...it's true. No American White College Fund. I had to go to school one of two ways: be smart enough to get a scholarship or pay for it myself. There is no White Entertainment Network. Is there a NAAWP? Miss White America? Nope and nope, people of all races are encouraged and welcome. Ebony and Jet magazines....what would be the white equivalents? Please don't say that we already have strictly white representation in those areas and many others. Oh....crime update from Chiraq this weekend and it's not even noon on a Saturday. Where are those Revs now?!?? www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/3-Year-Old-Boy-Among-13-Shot-Overnight-in-Chicago-272412981.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_CHBrand |
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Post by Air-Roo on Sept 9, 2014 14:00:55 GMT -5
But, keep this in mind: You are probably white. Therefore, it is impossible for you to come at this from an objective place.
Of course you don't see black people being treated as monkeys! This is the very definition of what it means to have white privilege. Your whiteness allows you to live in a state of blissful ignorance regarding racial matters in our society. Blacks, Asians, and hispanics do not get to live in this same state of blissful ignorance.
You are entirely missing the point that I am trying to make: Being white, in itself, causes a certain level of blindness when it comes to racial matters.
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Post by selloutrus on Sept 9, 2014 14:37:20 GMT -5
But, keep this in mind: You are probably white. Therefore, it is impossible for you to come at this from an objective place. Of course you don't see black people being treated as monkeys! This is the very definition of what it means to have white privilege. Your whiteness allows you to live in a state of blissful ignorance regarding racial matters in our society. Blacks, Asians, and hispanics do not get to live in this same state of blissful ignorance. You are entirely missing the point that I am trying to make: Being white, in itself, causes a certain level of blindness when it comes to racial matters. My husband is Asian, I'm learning to see the world through his eyes, and I'm stunned at what I see. Those "Ching-chong- chinky-chink" stereotypes are still very much alive.....but as a white person, I was never really aware of it. Five years ago, I would've agreed with you that "Society has moved beyond those kinds of stereotypes!" because I'm white, so, I never had to see those stereotypes playing out. Being white protects you from having to see and deal with racism. That's part of what it means to be "privileged." You are very ignorant in all things worldly(sex, racial bias) and very insulting and racist by stating that by being white, you can not be objective. But hey, that's just my opinion....whitey! |
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") and as the soon-to-be wife of a Chinese man, I've become intensely aware of how white people tend to be blithely unaware of racial matters. You have to be a white person in order to seriously think that racism isn't a massive and hugely oppressive problem in this country. I'm white, and I used to think that I wasn't racist. I thought that way because our racist culture is something that's essentially invisible to white people who benefit every day from their many white privileges without even being aware of it. I feel embarrassed about my past beliefs, and I'm glad my eyes have been opened. 
