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Post by aeroknows on Sept 4, 2023 6:35:12 GMT -5
I get the fact that a 2 hour show is heavy lifting for a pounder like Joey, but the fact he seems to have been erased from history within the band doesn't sit easy with me,or a lot of other fans... Apparently. He's very conspicuous by his silence, which makes it all more confusing. Will we ever know the truth? I do think he should be acknowledged, one way or another. Just my thoughts. I have no knowledge but it is possible that Joey reached an agreement/settlement with the band that requires him to remain silent.
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Post by AeroCooper on Sept 4, 2023 6:46:57 GMT -5
I wish he could be there, but if Joey isn't at the shows, I have to believe there is a very good reason far beyond just missing a beat here and there. He was never a trouble maker within the band and there are no recent stories of him even arguing with Steven over anything. I noticed back around 2014 or so that Joey was looking extremely worn out, even on the brink of a medical emergency at the shows, and that was just from the clips made available to us. Who knows what he was like backstage following an entire set? It is true that we may never know (or need to know) the whole story, but I'm going with the theory that whatever is going on behind the scenes is going on out of love and concern for Joey's physical well being/life. All that being said, this can not be stated enough, regardless of everything else: I do think he should be acknowledged, one way or another.
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Post by aerostooge on Sept 4, 2023 10:21:41 GMT -5
Of course.... It genuinely upsets me not to see the 5 of them together celebrating this milestone. Obviously, one can't help wondering what has actually happened behind the scenes... That's human nature.
Will we ever know? I doubt it.
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Post by tomhamilton on Sept 4, 2023 11:44:35 GMT -5
But yes, the gist of what I've heard is the same. That it wasn't Joey choice and it's not really about his health, but about how it's perceived he's making the whole band look. To put it mildly. Joe Perry's playing has been, to say the least, questionable, for about 6/7 years now (off key, missing notes, throwing random sounds other than the known riffs), but since his task is "less demanding" than Joey's, and he puts on a show alongside Steven, no one mentions that. Don't get me wrong, I love him, I love all of them, but come on, you guys are all in your 70s. Slow it down a beat and keep Joey in, we will go to your shows and have a hell of a time!
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Post by ultimaterocker on Sept 4, 2023 12:29:50 GMT -5
But yes, the gist of what I've heard is the same. That it wasn't Joey choice and it's not really about his health, but about how it's perceived he's making the whole band look. To put it mildly. Joe Perry's playing has been, to say the least, questionable, for about 6/7 years now (off key, missing notes, throwing random sounds other than the known riffs), but since his task is "less demanding" than Joey's, and he puts on a show alongside Steven, no one mentions that. Don't get me wrong, I love him, I love all of them, but come on, you guys are all in your 70s. Slow it down a beat and keep Joey in, we will go to your shows and have a hell of a time! Fair - but I would say Joe has pulled it together over the course of his last solo tour and judging by the Philly show he was playing the best we have seen from him in some time.
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Post by VoodooMedicineMan on Sept 4, 2023 14:06:38 GMT -5
Joey has never been shy about voicing his opinion. I have a hard time believing that he would remain silent if he had any major objections to what the band has recently said or done about his status, nor do I think he would have signed anything forfeiting his right to speak up in the future.
I'm sure he has his grievances about how things went down in 2020, which is likely why he hasn't gone out of his way to endorse the tour.
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Post by tomhamilton on Sept 4, 2023 14:35:13 GMT -5
Joe Perry's playing has been, to say the least, questionable, for about 6/7 years now (off key, missing notes, throwing random sounds other than the known riffs), but since his task is "less demanding" than Joey's, and he puts on a show alongside Steven, no one mentions that. Don't get me wrong, I love him, I love all of them, but come on, you guys are all in your 70s. Slow it down a beat and keep Joey in, we will go to your shows and have a hell of a time! Fair - but I would say Joe has pulled it together over the course of his last solo tour and judging by the Philly show he was playing the best we have seen from him in some time. I really haven't checked anything from his solo tour or the HV european tour, but if he really pulled it together, that's GREAT news.
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Post by warmaker on Sept 4, 2023 17:11:46 GMT -5
Joe Perry's playing has been, to say the least, questionable, for about 6/7 years now (off key, missing notes, throwing random sounds other than the known riffs), but since his task is "less demanding" than Joey's, and he puts on a show alongside Steven, no one mentions that. Don't get me wrong, I love him, I love all of them, but come on, you guys are all in your 70s. Slow it down a beat and keep Joey in, we will go to your shows and have a hell of a time! Fair - but I would say Joe has pulled it together over the course of his last solo tour and judging by the Philly show he was playing the best we have seen from him in some time. Possibly... but even if he hasn't - that's fine by me. He has already proved his worth, mastery and ingenuity as a full-blooded rock star. It doesn't need to be boringly perfect (and identical, as their consecutive shows usually are), it just needs to be true.
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Post by warmaker on Sept 4, 2023 17:13:58 GMT -5
But yes, the gist of what I've heard is the same. That it wasn't Joey choice and it's not really about his health, but about how it's perceived he's making the whole band look. To put it mildly. Joe Perry's playing has been, to say the least, questionable, for about 6/7 years now (off key, missing notes, throwing random sounds other than the known riffs), but since his task is "less demanding" than Joey's, and he puts on a show alongside Steven, no one mentions that. Don't get me wrong, I love him, I love all of them, but come on, you guys are all in your 70s. Slow it down a beat and keep Joey in, we will go to your shows and have a hell of a time! There, there... listen to the man. He's 100% right. Not because he's saying what I've said before but that would be the right way to go about all this...
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Post by warmaker on Sept 4, 2023 17:24:45 GMT -5
I get the fact that a 2 hour show is heavy lifting for a pounder like Joey, but the fact he seems to have been erased from history within the band doesn't sit easy with me, or a lot of other fans... Apparently. He's very conspicuous by his silence, which makes it all more confusing. Will we ever know the truth? I do think he should be acknowledged, one way or another. Just my thoughts. I have no knowledge but it is possible that Joey reached an agreement/settlement with the band that requires him to remain silent. I was thinking the same thing - there are no doubt armies of lawyers on all sides (the band, each member separately, the label, the management and God knows who/what else), so it might be that some form of settlement was reached. Joey has never been shy about voicing his opinion. I have a hard time believing that he would remain silent if he had any major objections to what the band has recently said or done about his status, nor do I think he would have signed anything forfeiting his right to speak up in the future. I'm sure he has his grievances about how things went down in 2020, which is likely why he hasn't gone out of his way to endorse the tour. You do have a point, but it is especially worrying that it's 5 of them in a band and I don't believe all 4 of them wanted him out. Maybe they didn't stand up for him and he felt deserted and betrayed? Really hard to say, but since, as you say " Joey has never been shy about voicing his opinion" there must be a REALLY good reason for him and all others to keep their mouths shut so tightly... I want to believe what AeroCooper does: [...] I have to believe there is a very good reason far beyond just missing a beat here and there. He was never a trouble maker within the band and there are no recent stories of him even arguing with Steven over anything. [...] but I'm going with the theory that whatever is going on behind the scenes is going on out of love and concern for Joey's physical well being/life. But if so, why won't they show some love and support? They ignore or even cancel (as we would say nowadays ) him. That's what doesn't seem to fit the " love and concern" point of view... All that being said, this can not be stated enough, regardless of everything else: I do think he should be acknowledged, one way or another. Somebody tell that to the band and management
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Post by aeroknows on Sept 4, 2023 19:48:18 GMT -5
The more I think about it, Joey has a family and life is bigger than Aerosmith. Financial security for the next generations of Kramers at stake, why not settle? Did he enjoy the same money as Tyler and Perry over the years? The kids...the grandkids(if any yet). What else do old fucks like me (although for me I think grandkids are probably someways away from here) think about? There is a lot of money to go around here.
Why not acknowledge Joey? Because the tour is being sold as the Aerosmith farewell, not Aerosmith minus one. Marketing folks would shit. Joey already sued once so he is not a shrinking violet. I believe he has made his decision and am ok with it provided he is too, which we don't know. I think after this tour is over we may hear more from the four about appreciation of Joey. But for now, if it means one more ticket sold it is Aerosmith's farewell. Not some of Aerosmith's farewell.
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Post by fwanger on Sept 4, 2023 20:05:50 GMT -5
I noticed at the concert the other night Steven spent quite a bit of time doing what looked like giving instructions to Douglas. (meaning between verses yelling something to him and then going back to singing) We all know the biggest critic of the drumming in Aerosmith is Steven himself. We all remember the stories of what happened with Joey during the Nine Lives era. Steven, on top of Joey grieving over his father, almost got driven over the edge and had to go away for some, well, we'll call it reflective time. Seems a similar situation might have happened here. Losing his wife, his heart issues (Coop is right, he did have issues and have to go to the hospital around the 2014 timeframe, right after Joe's collapse) and general old age and drumming plus Steven being Steven and what sean and ana say make some sense. It's sad. This is how they go out.
All that said, on-stage they remain tight. Yes, Joe misses some notes, and Stevenoke is very apparent at the show. There are lyric monitors every few feet, followed by practically a jumbotron in front of the A with the lyrics to the songs so large they can be seen from space. And he still misses lyrics*, not counting Living on the Edge. I think he is just bored with that song because I think he might have actually sang it as Living on the Edge once, after that it was Picking at Your Wedge, Something about your fridge, Maybe a mention about a Bridge, you get the idea lol. (I kinda kicked myself for looking away during the beginning of Seasons of Wither because I had a clear chance to finally know the real opening lyric as we all like to talk about it but my sister grabbed my attention and I looked away)
I guess it is what it is at this point. Time will tell and we will see how this tour plays out. If it goes anything like Philadelphia did, you're all in for a good time. Oh, and warmaker, I didn't get any email about a AF1 interview. A camera guy did come up to our area and stand near the entrance to our row for a minute but he got bored when none of the guys came back to the ramp while he was there and he left without talking to anyone.
*in his defense, he is running all over the place, almost flipping himself over barriers to talk to people and mug at their phone cameras. He's not going to hit every line of the song perfectly. But he gets about 85 to 90 percent of it. And what he doesn't the audience sings loudly for him.
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Post by AeroCooper on Sept 5, 2023 5:53:56 GMT -5
As long as we're throwing out theories and conspiracies, here's one: The other four are concerned for Joey and tell him, we don't think you should tour anymore at the risk of collapsing/checking out live on stage. Joey fights back, they fight harder, lawyers blah, blah, blah. Joey finally says screw you guys, I'll take your deal, but keep my name out of your mouths on tour if you don't want me there (more lawyers, more money, sign here, initial there please) - and there you go, all questions answered in a nice little package.
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Post by VoodooMedicineMan on Sept 5, 2023 9:17:46 GMT -5
The other four are concerned for Joey and tell him, we don't think you should tour anymore at the risk of collapsing/checking out live on stage. Joey fights back... That's how I imagine it went down. Joey did appear to be physically struggling for years, often times looking like he was about to blow a gasket, other times appearing slow and lethargic. I never noticed any major performance issues, but how was he an hour after a show? I doubt he'd take too kindly to any critique from Steven or Joe about his physical well being after some of their past antics. I'm sure he was hearing similar things from his family and close friends. Perhaps he reluctantly agrees, but still wants to point out the hypocrisy from the Aero camp. As far as being 'cancelled'. I'm not seeing it. He's still plastered all over their website and in merchandise. Some view listing '4' as a swipe at him. For me, and I'm sure a lot of others, before buying tickets to see a band, I always check how many original or long tenured guys will be there. It's often 1 (pass). The Black Crowes only have the 2 brothers. 4 out of 5 being there is still pretty damn impressive, and Aerosmith actually makes it pretty clear JD isn't part of the band. Granted, I haven't seen this video and reserve the right to change my mind after viewing it. But any messages for in show stuff, I get them wanting those to appear off the cuff, which would be from the 4 that are there.
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Post by VoodooMedicineMan on Sept 5, 2023 10:14:34 GMT -5
There are lyric monitors every few feet, followed by practically a jumbotron in front of the A with the lyrics to the songs so large they can be seen from space. And he still misses lyrics*, not counting Living on the Edge. I think he is just bored with that song because I think he might have actually sang it as Living on the Edge once, after that it was Picking at Your Wedge, Something about your fridge, Maybe a mention about a Bridge, you get the idea lol. (I kinda kicked myself for looking away during the beginning of Seasons of Wither because I had a clear chance to finally know the real opening lyric as we all like to talk about it but my sister grabbed my attention and I looked away) Damn too bad, I've been hoping someone would get a picture or video to confirm the Seasons lyrics. I've checked some Youtube videos looking for the lyrics monitors. They seem to be in plain view during every recording of Edge, but I've yet to see the screens in a Seasons video.
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