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Post by redvers76 on Apr 27, 2020 1:51:15 GMT -5
Trump idiocy aside, there is an interesting “experiment” in Ireland where Northern Ireland (British rule and therefore following British guidelines for lockdown, social distancing) has twice the death rate as the Republic of Ireland (separate rule, locked down fast & early, cancelled St Patrick’s Day!) Everything else is equal, so it clearly shows that how this is being managed is what drives the rate of infections and subsequent deaths. And in the U.K. it’s only the rich billionaire businessmen saying we should end the lockdown and reopen the country. They also said words to the effect of “so a load of pensioners will die, fuck em” when this first came to the U.K... I imagine it’s the same in Leftpondia, the rich business owners are being affected more because they’re losing money. Who cares if some people will die, open the country again! For someone who lies and says they don't care about Trump you have called him an idiot as much as CNN. An idiot. hmmmm. Billionaire before the internet handed out that status like popsicles and on of only 45 humans to be named POTUS. The Waltons of Wal-Mart and Daytons of Target are fine, not bitching for the economy to open because they are open and sales are up. Along with all the billionaires of the internet. Its the last of the middle-class getting pummeled. Just like and flu season, which kills more than civid 19, elderly show some personal responsibility and keep away from people. They are not a generation who whines and cries like you do. Hmmm I think you must have mistaken me for someone else. All those old people in Florida banding together, good job there’s none in other parts of the country, and they don’t need groceries or visits from family or anything, right? So, covid is worse than flu : arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/experts-demolish-studies-suggesting-covid-19-is-no-worse-than-flu/www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-24/is-coronavirus-worse-than-the-flu-blood-studies-say-yes-by-farwww.businessinsider.com/chart-us-weekly-coronavirus-deaths-compared-heart-disease-cancer-flu-2020-4?r=US&IR=Twww.wsj.com/articles/why-doesnt-flu-tank-economy-like-covid-19-11586511000But even if the death rate was exactly the same as flu, so what? Let a few old and immuno compromised people die, they will anyway, let’s open the world back up, right? The real problem isn’t the fact that the death rate is higher. It’s the fact that 10x as many people need hospital treatment, and of those, they stay 4x longer. So Covid needs 40x more hospital resources than flu. And it spreads quicker than flu, too. So instead of a gradual infection of the northern hemisphere over the space of a year, this has come in like a tsunami. Those areas that didn’t lock down quick enough, and I include the U.K. in that, have had an increase in infections as a result. In places like Italy where it first ravaged Europe, and before the lockdown came in, people were dying so quickly they needed the army to clear the bodies from the streets. In New York they bury “unclaimed” bodies on Hart Island, typically 25 a week, and they’re now having to bury 25 a day in mass graves.
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Post by anaix3l on Apr 27, 2020 2:21:47 GMT -5
I imagine it’s the same in Leftpondia, the rich business owners are being affected more because they’re losing money. Who cares if some people will die, open the country again! The rich are so affected they're getting almost all of the money that's meant to provide financial relief for those hit by the lockdown. Banks are getting a good deal out of this too. Better than a lot of small businesses that actually took a serious hit. In the meanwhile, the poor who have been left without a job queue for hours at food banks because some of them are getting exactly nothing. I've also seen queues at pawn shops close to where I live. Then spend the rest of their days in overcrowded housing. The lockdown basically prevents social distancing for them. You know you cannot keep the distance when queuing at the food bank, that's why it looks like in the photo above. People will squeeze in front of you and you risk there won't be anything left for you. What are you going to do then? Raid the trash? Terribly healthy option right there, not to mention it may be illegal in some places and you risk ending up in jail for it. But hey, if you're going to go to jail, why not get there for something that's worth it? There were two muggings in front of where I live in one day. And I live in a place that used to be extremely safe. These people had a better chance while they were working. They had more personal space. And many did jobs that required their employers to provide protection equipment. A dust mask would be better than nothing, you know? The lockdown was never about protecting all the people. It was always about protecting the rich. Save for a couple of exceptions like religious gatherings and crowded worker dorms (you know, those places where they're now stuck almost 24/7 since they don't go to work anymore), super-spreading events so far have not been the kind of situations normally associated with the working class people. They were most often parties on cruise ships and other such fancy settings and business meetings. So just stop everything to protect the rich idiots. Also give them money because they've been oh, so, so affected by this. And fuck the poor. Leave them without jobs, perhaps permanently. Leave them without money. Leave them without information. Seriously, this is stupid. You can control this thing if you just make sure people have access to information about how to protect themselves and the freedom to do so, a freedom the lockdowns have stripped them of. Don't shut down parks when you have half the population living in overcrowded homes. Don't discourage people from seeking medical help for issues unrelated to the virus that could still kill them. And fucking make sure the people who are in hospital for other reasons don't catch the damn thing (we totally fucked this one up). Instead of just kicking out people with serious conditions because you want your end of year administrative report numbers to look good and they wouldn't look good if they caught the virus in your hospital. My mom's cousin died a week ago precisely because of this. She kept being bounced from hospital to hospital for a few days because nobody wanted to risk having someone in her condition catching something there. When a hospital finally took her, it was too late. Face coverings work. If 60% of the people use masks that are 60% efficient, the virus can be stopped without destroying the lives of the most vulnerable. Shutting down everything is extremely dangerous and it's not necessary.
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Post by pillis on Apr 27, 2020 13:07:17 GMT -5
I am not a trump supporter and I don't wanna defend his remarks which are still very stupid and scientifically invalid but honestly he did not tell Americans to inject themselves with disinfectant. He commented the state of the various researches and speculated if with the help of "medical doctors" (lol) it was possible to achieve similar results by either injection for some sort of "cleaning" of the lungs or by exposing people to a powerful light. It's still bullshit and worrisome given he's the leader of the biggest country in the world but he did not say that injecting bleach into people's veins fights covid19.
As for the lockdown in Italy is doing wonders, if people (poor or rich) gather so close to each other while in line for whatever service it's their problem. Even here it's full of morons who still go out, meet without protection and without respecting social distancing. Stupidity is free and it's never sold out. If people are losing too much income it's because of your government is unable to provide efficient welfare in time of needs. EU finally has showed some balls in providing a decent set of financial tools to support the economies. Also the lockdown measures aren't imposed by the rich or some foreign country, every country with its parliament and government is choosing its own way of dealing with the pandemic according to its own capabilities, resources and infection rate. And for the people who still think this is less harmful than a flu..just don't believe in unreliable statistics especially now that we're still in the middle of the pandemic counting new patients every day. Covid has been out for 3 months officially and most countries have gone into lockdown so luckily the numbers have started to decrease almost everywhere. Our healthcare systems are already prepared to face the seasonal flu (and influenza is still a serious illness it isn't just a cold). Even if Covid were as lethal as influenza, we would end up with double the yearly number of patients in the same amount of time and this is unsustainable for many hospitals and countries. But we already know that Covid is worse than influenza even for the simple fact that we don't have a vaccine, we don't have herd immunity and we don't have effective treatments. Also we know it is much more contagious than influenza And we know that mortality in general saw a scary peak in many areas affected by Covid since the same period last year. So please stop spreading BS and nonsense and respect our authorities that are facing the most difficult task since WWII.
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Post by black911 on Apr 29, 2020 18:56:35 GMT -5
For someone who lies and says they don't care about Trump you have called him an idiot as much as CNN. An idiot. hmmmm. Billionaire before the internet handed out that status like popsicles and on of only 45 humans to be named POTUS. The Waltons of Wal-Mart and Daytons of Target are fine, not bitching for the economy to open because they are open and sales are up. Along with all the billionaires of the internet. Its the last of the middle-class getting pummeled. Just like and flu season, which kills more than civid 19, elderly show some personal responsibility and keep away from people. They are not a generation who whines and cries like you do. Hmmm I think you must have mistaken me for someone else. All those old people in Florida banding together, good job there’s none in other parts of the country, and they don’t need groceries or visits from family or anything, right? So, covid is worse than flu : arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/experts-demolish-studies-suggesting-covid-19-is-no-worse-than-flu/www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-24/is-coronavirus-worse-than-the-flu-blood-studies-say-yes-by-farwww.businessinsider.com/chart-us-weekly-coronavirus-deaths-compared-heart-disease-cancer-flu-2020-4?r=US&IR=Twww.wsj.com/articles/why-doesnt-flu-tank-economy-like-covid-19-11586511000But even if the death rate was exactly the same as flu, so what? Let a few old and immuno compromised people die, they will anyway, let’s open the world back up, right? The real problem isn’t the fact that the death rate is higher. It’s the fact that 10x as many people need hospital treatment, and of those, they stay 4x longer. So Covid needs 40x more hospital resources than flu. And it spreads quicker than flu, too. So instead of a gradual infection of the northern hemisphere over the space of a year, this has come in like a tsunami. Those areas that didn’t lock down quick enough, and I include the U.K. in that, have had an increase in infections as a result. In places like Italy where it first ravaged Europe, and before the lockdown came in, people were dying so quickly they needed the army to clear the bodies from the streets. In New York they bury “unclaimed” bodies on Hart Island, typically 25 a week, and they’re now having to bury 25 a day in mass graves. All your data is completely false to what is happening in the US. People died. It sucks. But it is no worse then the seasonal influenza. And doctors all over the country have been saying they are told to add covid to the death certificate even when it was not even tested for. We will end up saying, "What the FU&K did we do" when this is all over. I am so shocked Trey did not move this to "Heated" long ago...........must be tired of us huh
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Post by black911 on Apr 29, 2020 19:00:30 GMT -5
So please stop spreading BS and nonsense and respect our authorities that are facing the most difficult task since WWII. Wow, really? "Stay in you home and shut up because I said while I ignore all the new studies around the US" says governor Walz of Minnesota and many more across the country.
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Post by bartman2001 on Apr 29, 2020 22:40:24 GMT -5
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Post by redvers76 on Apr 30, 2020 1:36:27 GMT -5
www.dailynews.com/2020/04/28/california-doctors-with-dubious-covid-conclusions-debunked/The right wing echo chamber must have worked long and hard to get all those touchstones into the script... and getting a couple of doctors on board, people will go “oh they’re doctors they must know what they’re talking about” Nah, not how it works in the real world. Still, if all you red-hat wearing country re-opening “it’s just flu” would like to line up at the desk over to the right with your government ID, we’re going make a note of your wishes and when you’re dying in hospital during the second wave, we’ll be sure to gather around your bed and say “it’s just flu” - from a safe distance of course! Of course, you think you’re fine, only affects old people, you’re not old. Yet it kills 20% of population - literally one in 5 - and only 15% of America is old people... so who makes up the other 5%?
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slam83
Got a Grip
Posts: 50
Join Date:
Dec 12, 2015 6:26:26 GMT -5
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Post by slam83 on Apr 30, 2020 3:07:13 GMT -5
Fuck The Coronavirus. I'm sick of it. Washing your fuckin' hands and all that shit. Pathetic.
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Post by pillis on Apr 30, 2020 4:32:20 GMT -5
Oh gosh so now this virus is a hoax to pass gun control Laws. Don't you understand this is a global crisis?! No government is benefitting from this mess. And it's a scary virus we still don't know much about if, they're founding new things every week. Now we know if doesn't attack the lungs only but kidneys, brain, heart and veins as well. We need to crack the code and learn who can be seriously affected by the illness and who's not. We still don't know and statistics about age are very unreliable. Also we don't need to stay home for eternity but as long as it takes to lower the infection rate so we can open gradually with caution keeping the infection rate low so hospitals aren't overwhelmed. In the meantime scientists all over the world are looking for a cure and a possible vaccine. We had a daily growth of over 18% a month ago now it's under 1.5%. The lock down is super effective, it's saving lives and it's buying precious time for preparing our countries. Granted there are isolated countries with less cases and a less lively social culture and less elderly who can afford to avoid drastic measures (like Sweden which I don't even thing is doing that great tbh but I'm not well informed) but most developed countrirs need some kind of restriction for the time being.
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Post by bartman2001 on Apr 30, 2020 8:35:48 GMT -5
Me too. The editorial clearly an opinion is arguing the overblown response to it in the US has been a hoax not the virus itself. It's pretty damn clear on that point. And yes in the U.S. the House Of Representatives is using people's inundation with the virus and their vulnerable acceptance of everything the government tells them or does to sneak gun control legislation into bills & laws. I've never fired a gun let alone own one but this sneaky shit exist here and it pisses me off.
pillis I get where your coming from, believe it or not, I fully understand how hard Italy has been hit by this. I'm not and I don't believe anyone is suggesting the many people dying from this isn't very sad everywhere. But I don't think Italy or anywhere else in the world should be the random sample as to how the US should respond to the Corona virus and vise versa.
For the record I'm not a right wing propagandist. For example try to find a person on the planet who is a more staunch supporter of the separation of church and state or is more pro choice than me. You can't do it because that person does not exist.
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Post by pillis on Apr 30, 2020 13:59:18 GMT -5
Problem is in Europe many people rely on public transport while in the US there's more of a car culture so social distancing becomes easier on the way to work in the US (I've used public transport in LA and it was NEVER crowded and yet I've found it pretty efficient and useful).
Still we need time and I think trump did a good job balancing economical needs while implementing measures to protect public health. I honestly haven't followed his actions very accurately but from what's generally reported I wouldn't complain too much. Of course every country is acting differently, Italy is not a fixed sample to follow for anyone but Spain, France and UK who's been similarly hit have implemented similar measures and the numbers are getting so much better.
Today in Italy we had less than 2000 (around 1800) new cases and with many recovered people and always less patients needing hospitalisation or intensive care, we're now able to enter phase 2 starting from may 4th. Of course there are still limitations and precautions until may 18th and I'm sure this step-by-step approach will continue for many months. The goal is to have a general healthy situation with limited cases that will allow us to act fast and locate local outbreaks and block selected areas only. Or you can risk it and try to block only people who contacted positive patients but that is very hard to pull off and in trying to do so months ago in Italy we let the virus spread over our grasp.
Or you can pretend this is a flu and do nothing about it like some genius is suggesting. That may be feasible in unpopulated and isolated countries with little sign of infection but it's definitely not recommended for most developed countries active in the WTO.
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Post by pillis on May 5, 2020 13:31:49 GMT -5
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Post by redvers76 on May 13, 2020 16:48:24 GMT -5
So Guns n Roses finally pulled the plug on their tour, 9 days before the first show!
Means we could be waiting for first week of June for Aerosmith to pull their finger out and cancel!
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Post by warmaker on May 13, 2020 19:07:25 GMT -5
So Guns n Roses finally pulled the plug on their tour, 9 days before the first show! Means we could be waiting for first week of June for Aerosmith to pull their finger out and cancel! Damn! I knew they cancelled, but what I did not know is that it was just before the first show! Well that sucks... And, I mean, I understand the band and the promoters and the venues and everything, but in the end, it's us, fans, at the end of the line and cancelling in the very last moment is kinda unfair. Especially to those that travel far and wide, book flights, hotels, take days off at work etc...
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Post by petertherock on May 17, 2020 10:54:21 GMT -5
I am not a trump supporter and I don't wanna defend his remarks which are still very stupid and scientifically invalid but honestly he did not tell Americans to inject themselves with disinfectant. He commented the state of the various researches and speculated if with the help of "medical doctors" (lol) it was possible to achieve similar results by either injection for some sort of "cleaning" of the lungs or by exposing people to a powerful light. It's still bullshit and worrisome given he's the leader of the biggest country in the world but he did not say that injecting bleach into people's veins fights covid19. As for the lockdown in Italy is doing wonders, if people (poor or rich) gather so close to each other while in line for whatever service it's their problem. Even here it's full of morons who still go out, meet without protection and without respecting social distancing. Stupidity is free and it's never sold out. If people are losing too much income it's because of your government is unable to provide efficient welfare in time of needs. EU finally has showed some balls in providing a decent set of financial tools to support the economies. Also the lockdown measures aren't imposed by the rich or some foreign country, every country with its parliament and government is choosing its own way of dealing with the pandemic according to its own capabilities, resources and infection rate. And for the people who still think this is less harmful than a flu..just don't believe in unreliable statistics especially now that we're still in the middle of the pandemic counting new patients every day. Covid has been out for 3 months officially and most countries have gone into lockdown so luckily the numbers have started to decrease almost everywhere. Our healthcare systems are already prepared to face the seasonal flu (and influenza is still a serious illness it isn't just a cold). Even if Covid were as lethal as influenza, we would end up with double the yearly number of patients in the same amount of time and this is unsustainable for many hospitals and countries. But we already know that Covid is worse than influenza even for the simple fact that we don't have a vaccine, we don't have herd immunity and we don't have effective treatments. Also we know it is much more contagious than influenza And we know that mortality in general saw a scary peak in many areas affected by Covid since the same period last year. So please stop spreading BS and nonsense and respect our authorities that are facing the most difficult task since WWII. What are you laughing about “medical doctors” for. You do know there are other kinds of doctors besides medical doctors don’t you?
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